Live Event

Deliver Exceptional Service During the Seasonal Rush


Whether it’s a retail holiday rush, a new product launch, or an exciting event, customer service teams often deal with big spikes in the volume of incoming requests. Those spikes can put teams and systems to the test, so it’s best to be well prepared.

Join Adrian Swinscoe, customer experience consultant and expert, and Nick Francis, CEO of Help Scout, for a chat on preparing for, coping with, and learning from your busiest customer service periods.

What you’ll learn:

  • How to learn from your past to improve your next busy period
  • Using your support team to address the causes of service spikes
  • Supporting your support team during the rush
  • Why leadership matters most in times of stress

Read full transcript

Nick Francis: I think we are now broadcasting. Hi, everyone. My name is Nick Francis. I’m the co-founder and CEO at Help Scout. And today, I’m speaking with a friend of mine named Adrian Swinscoe. He’s a customer service expert. He’s a customer experience consultant, advisor, speaker, Forbes contributor, and even best-selling author. He’s growing and helping develop customer-focused large and small businesses. He’s been doing that for more than 20 years and has worked with Fortune 50 companies and small businesses alike helping them engage with their customers, build their customer retention, and improve their service in customer experience.

Nick Francis: Adrian, welcome. It’s nice to talk with you again.

Adrian Swinscoe: Hey, Nick. How ya doing? Hi, everybody.

Nick Francis: Today, we’re going to be having a bit of a chat about rush hour, scaling up your customer service to better handle busy times. We all know that we’re going into the holiday season, so Adrian and I are going to talk a little bit about that today.

Nick Francis: Before we dive in, I just want to tell you that this little conversation that we’re having is brought to you by HelpU. HelpU is a resource that we built at Help Scout for customer support professionals. We really built it to elevate the profession as a whole and to educate, not only the support professionals on the front lines, but support managers and even entrepreneurs and people running customer-centric companies.

Nick Francis: It’s a completely free resource. It doesn’t matter what tools or tactics you’re using. We’ve designed the content to be useful to everybody. So, please do check that out. It’s You can sign up and get this webinar in your inbox.

Nick Francis: So without further ado, let’s go ahead and get started on today’s chat.

Nick Francis: Adrian, obviously it’s November. Everybody’s about to ramp up their sales and service for the holidays.

Adrian Swinscoe: Yeah.

Nick Francis: Have you worked with other types of companies that deal with big fluctuations in their demand for customer service during times like these?

Adrian Swinscoe: Yes, I have. Funny enough, I was actually with a team, a support team actually, earlier this week for a telecoms company who, one of the biggest parts of their business is they provide telecoms service and phone services to things like schools and doctors clinics and so on and so forth. So the nature of their business isn’t really about sort of the holiday seasons, as it were, but they go through peak demand seasons because all of the work, the repairs and the questions and the new installations and all that sort of stuff are all centered around holiday times.

Adrian Swinscoe: Through term times or kind of through business operations as usual, they kind of patch things together and they make sure that things work, but when things get to the point where they are nearing, say, school holidays, for example, if you’re thinking about schools specifically, then all the work gets slammed into one week or two weeks when the schools are off holiday and there’s no kids around. And then everybody has to pile in and solve all those kind of problems.

Adrian Swinscoe: I think that this idea about peak demand can feature, it’s not just about holidays, but it can feature for different types of businesses across the year. So, I think this is a very appropriate subject for now given that we’re coming into the holiday season, but it also manifests itself for other businesses across the year. And so, the lessons I think, are applicable across the year.

Nick Francis: Absolutely. What are some examples of different tactics that companies have used to sort of ramp up their team during a seasonal time of high demand?

Adrian Swinscoe: Well, I mean, I think there is a range of different options. The obvious options are you put more hands to the … You push everybody to the front line, so you can basically all hands to the pump. My sister works for a retailer, but she works in head office doing a lot of the sort of design and production sort of stuff. But actually once we get towards the peak retail season, they end up spending a lot of time in stores just to help out people that are on the frontline. That’s kind of one option. It’s like get all your people and just push the frontline. All hands to the pump.

Adrian Swinscoe: Another option is that you just hire in seasonal workers or you can hire somebody to do on demand type stuff. That’s fine. You can turn that on and off, as it were. And then all the way through to … Almost like smarter ways of doing things where you actually think about the nature of demand and what’s happened in the past and you think about actually is there ways of us helping our customers in a smarter way, which means that we don’t incur sort of the people and the financial kind of burden that comes with these kind of peak seasons. I think that’s one of the things I was trying to do with this team earlier this week was just to help them think about this idea that you don’t actually have to hire more people, necessarily, to produce a different quantity and a quality of service. Actually, you just need to be smarter at it.

Nick Francis: Sure. I was talking to a Help Scout customer a couple of months ago, and I won’t say their name just because I didn’t ask permission for this, but I just wanted to share how they were able to scale up. They had basically launched chat for their business and instantly got another 400 conversations every week. And what they did was really cool and not every business would be able to do this, but I thought it was such an innovative idea is that, essentially, they had talked to some of their best customers and a lot of their customers by nature are freelancers, so they talked to some of their best customers and said, “Hey, would you like to help us out part-time and support our product?”

Adrian Swinscoe: Yeah. Nah. Completely.

Nick Francis: They had about 20 people that they were able to sort of, as support bursts came in, they were able to schedule out those people part-time and take on the additional load. The people already knew the product and it was a really cool solution I’d never really heard of before.

Adrian Swinscoe: You know what, and actually, there’s a bunch of companies that are doing that, some software providers that are doing that and it’s kind of based on this idea, it’s called … It’s either customer assisted commerce or advocate assisted commerce. What they end up doing, it’s based on this idea that customers don’t really trust companies, unfortunately in many cases, and actually they do trust employees, but sometimes it’s hard to get in touch with employees. But they do trust previous customers more, and particularly when it’s in the situation where it’s like a considered purchase, i.e. it’s a reasonably sizable purchase and you have to spend a bit of time sort of doing your research and thinking about it.

Adrian Swinscoe: What they’ve done is they’ve gone through a bit of a chat and Q&A sort of platform as they recruit some of those customers into that, and people can actually live-chat with those customers and ask for their opinion. Like, is this going to fit? What’s the problems with this? You know, I’m going to use it for that. Et cetera, et cetera. And they get real feedback from real customers. Now the customers are rewarded for this and scheduled in. But it’s like … It’s been around for a while, but it’s really early days. And it’s hard to pull off and do right. But if it works for your business and you can get it right, you can get fantastic drop in support requests for the core team that actually much better conversion rates and higher average spent per customer. So it’s like a win-win all round.

Nick Francis: Yeah. I totally agree. I kind of fell in love with the tactic immediately because as an entrepreneur that’s pretty protective of the customer experience, we really want to be able to help our customers in a knowledgeable way. I’ve always been a bit nervous about the idea of community support. But you’re able to have sort of a curated process where they go through a brief training. You know that they’re a customer of yours. And then you can set them off at least to be sort of level one type of support. Man, that just seems like such a cool way to not only engage with your customers but to give them an opportunity to help others as well.

Adrian Swinscoe: I think … If I can go back to the, something you said before, because you talked about the idea of scaling up before sort of peak periods. I think it’s interesting to point out, that we talk about scaling up and as soon as we talk about scaling up we automatically start to assume that scaling up means more. More of, more of things. More of people, more of systems, more of … And actually I think we probably need to think of it a little bit differently and we can come back to that. We need to think about scaling up as almost kind of being more smart as well.

Nick Francis: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay. So let’s move on to one more question. If you’re advising a support team on handling a rush period when do you think they should start? What can they do now to make the next rush better?

Adrian Swinscoe: On the assumption that you’ve got some time to do it and you’re not in the middle of the rush right now, I always think that history is a great indicator of what you can do better now and in the future. And I think that regardless of what we think, there’s always opportunities for us to do more or do better. And so I think … If I give you, let’s say, a couple of statistics. One is, I think this comes from the corporate executive board and it says that approximately 60% of all calls into contact centers are requesting the support desks. It’s come about because customers can’t find the answers that they’re looking for on your website. So, that’s statistic number one.

Adrian Swinscoe: Statistic number two comes from, I think it’s Sabio. They do a benchmarking context and a benchmarking report every year. And they estimate that between 25% and 40% of all calls into contact centers, or email requests or whatever it might be. They say between 25 and 40% of all of those requests are avoidable. So when you take those two things together, you go, “Ahh. Okay. There’s some clues there about some of the stuff that we need to do.” Because if you ask a customer, “Do I want to sit in a phone queue?” If you ask yourself as a customer from your own experience, what is the first thing you do? Do you pick up the phone or do you try and check the website first?

Nick Francis: You want to figure out the answer for yourself, right.

Adrian Swinscoe: Right, because you get that thing and it’s kind of quicker any you also … It’s not dependent on waiting and actually having to do something. You want to find the answer. So I guess what I would say is. “Look for opportunities where you can provide answers to questions to your customers in ways … Questions that have happened in the past and are found frequently and regularly and if you can provide a means on your website so they can find them, whether it’s expanded FAQs or a knowledge base or whatever it might be. Even those little things can have a marginal improvement on the level of calls you get into your support desk or your contact center or your help desk.

Nick Francis: Absolutely.

Adrian Swinscoe: Secondly the other sort of thing is that, I think that if we are … If you think about that statistic, about 25 to 40% of calls are avoidable, what that implies is that if we haven’t done our job in terms of solving the customer’s problem at the point that they need it solved. Or actually delivering them the, explaining how things work or giving them the right level of service kind of before. We just haven’t given the tools or the information. So we’ve almost created that demand. In the parlance it’s called “failure demand”. So that failure is on us, so we have to look at where that comes from, what are the nature of the calls or the requests that come into us? Is there something that we can do proactively or preemptively further up the chain that allows us to actually reduce that demand on our time, so that’s what I mean about being, scaling up with smartness.

Nick Francis: Yeah. You’ve uncovered a really amazing tactic here because you talk to most business owners and they’re going to say, “Look, I can’t afford to scale up my team as a part of the holidays. I mean I’ve got finite resources.” But in leveraging self-service, just leveraging content to be helpful to customers when they need it and where they need it. Yeah. Essentially if you do it right, 20 to 40% of the questions your customers have can be answered by self-service in some way. So it’s really just about elevating those channels, those tools. Maybe having your team spend a lot more time going into a seasonal period working on self-service documentation. And that’s a way you can reduce volume, help people in the same amount of time as always without having to your team.

Adrian Swinscoe: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that, and the clues are all there, and the data’s all there and the history in our logs, in our emails, in our customers … In our CRM systems. All the information that we need and all the clues that we need sit in our systems. However, they also sit and are easily accessed because they sit in the heads of our support teams. So, let me tell you a story.

Adrian Swinscoe: Because more often than not people will go, “Oh. We need to look into our data”. And people are, “Well we’ll put a team together and we’re going to start sifting around all the data and try to all the problems.” And you’re coming at it almost … You’re taking a very technical, mechanistic sort of engineering sort of approach to things. Here’s the thing, is that most of those answers sit inside the heads of your support people already. It’s just you haven’t asked the question.

Adrian Swinscoe: And so the story I had is that there’s a big financial services institution. They were going through a sort of customer experience improvement process around one of their products. I think it was around mortgages. And they were like going, “Fine. We’re going to … We need to make it easier, make it better for our customers to deal with us and so we want to find out or identify what the top ten customer problems are.” Brilliant. So they hired a team, big data and analytics team. They all came in, gathered all the data, got in a room, kind of pulled down the blinds and kind of busy worked away for weeks on end.

Adrian Swinscoe: And then some smart body kind of turned around and went, “Actually, I’m going to gather eight to ten of the frontline people. I’m going to get them in a room. I’m going to buy a tray of donuts and teas and coffees and stuff. I’m going to tell their managers and supervisors to go away so they can speak freely and ask them to work together and to identify the top ten customer problems.” It took them 30 minutes to agree the top ten. Right. Here’s the thing. Here’s the kicker. The data and analytics team came back six weeks later to prove that the frontline agents were 80% correct.

Adrian Swinscoe: So the question has to be, “Are you wiling to expend 30 minutes of your time and a tray of donuts to be 80% correct and get started making things better for your customers? Or do you want to spend hundreds of hours and possibly hundreds, if not thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds, or dollars or yen or euros, whatever on a data analytics team only to find out that their 80 … Do you want to wait six weeks and spend all that time and effort to be 100% right? Ask yourself.

Nick Francis: Yeah. I love that you brought up that illustration because it’s so telling to other teams in the organization. I build product for a living. I build Help Scout, right?

Adrian Swinscoe: Sure.

Nick Francis: And it would be nuts for us to rest our laurels on all this quantitative data. Maybe one small aspect of it. But essentially when we want to build something we ask our support team first. You know, and this whole concept of support-driven growth, which is something we talk a lot about on HelpU, is the idea that a business can grow as a result of efforts, proactive efforts on behalf of the support teams. The support team has to be elevated. They have to be asked within an organization in order to add that value.

Adrian Swinscoe: I think that’s really important because actually the very, very fact of asking somebody’s opinion … Take it back to, a standard organizational practice. So customers ask … Businesses ask their customers for feedback, right. And the businesses that respond to that feedback and close the loop and show that they value that feedback are the ones that generally are the most admired and have the best relationships with their customers. The same is true of organizations internally. If you have management, leadership, supervision, team heads that are working with their people to help to understand what they know, what they see and how management can make the jobs of their team members easier so that they can then deliver better service.

Adrian Swinscoe: There’s a number of things that happen. People feel more engaged. People feel that they’re listened to. They feel more appreciated. They feel part of something. They want to work a bit harder. And then they’ll just kind of get stuck and try and just do an even better job. And so this stuff is not rocket science. I think one of the things it does is … Sometimes it’s hard because it requires sort of emotional labor and it requires us to be a little bit vulnerable and to admit that we don’t have the answers. But that’s kind of the art of it. You talk about the craft of support, you know managing that. There’s an art and crafts to the management of that as well and it’s a side I don’t think that gets as much attention as it requires. But it’s not rocket science. It’s really simple. But it can make you feel slightly vulnerable but it’s hugely powerful and hugely impactful as well.

Nick Francis: I totally agree. And I’m going to take small tangent because it’s really important for any product people in the room that are watching this. For any people that are actually making things or building whatever the customer is consuming. Giving the support team a voice in those decisions has absolutely changed our business. The moment I added our support team lead to our product leadership meeting where we talk all about roadmap and things that are upcoming with the product, instantly the roadmap sort of shifted, because and in a positive way, because of the insights and feedback that we were able to get, kind of from the front lines. Vice versa, kind of looking at it the other way, when the support team knows they have that level of trust from other teams in the organization they are going to feel inspired to practice support as a craft.

Nick Francis: Knowing that the organization is addressing some of the things that are being brought up by customers and being brought up by them. Therein lies a longer term strategy to better handle support in those busy times, right?

Adrian Swinscoe: I think that’s absolutely right and I think you make a great point related to what we were talking about before about how do you prepare for peak seasons and also how could you prepare for the next peak season if it’s kind of further down the line. Because, if you think about the nature of problems … The nature of problems for support isn’t always necessarily always going to be support’s fault. It could be … The nature, the origin of the problem may come from somewhere else. It could be products. It could be sales. It could be marketing. It could be finance. And understanding those linkages and helping people work together so that people understand each others business, and what we’re in the business of and how our roles all impact each other. Doing that and making, helping, what’s the word? Enabling those conversations and making sure they happen on a frequent basis so that people, one value them and also want to have them. It will just do wonders for basically the whole culture of the business.

Nick Francis: I totally agree. Okay, shifting gears to another question. Can you tell me a bit about systems thinking and how you would apply that to customer service in this kind of situation?

Adrian Swinscoe: Okay. So systems thinking is this idea that nothing happens in isolation. You know, so things are all connected. And so it’s like the point I was making before about support isn’t necessarily the root of all the problems and we live in a system. It’s all got all sorts of moving parts and we’re all connected. And system thinking is a way of sort of stepping back and trying to look at things, not necessarily mechanistically that A follows B, follows C, follows D. But to actually say, if actually if all of these things operate organically and have unseen or unacknowledged sort of impacts on each other, then what it’s trying to do it’s trying to map it all together and try to understand where the links are and where the impacts. Where the feedback loops are and the causal links are.

Adrian Swinscoe: So it’s just a way of thinking about, more broadly than your narrow swim lane as it were. So it’s to understand what happens say, in product. If we do this, what happens? Or in sales. We do this, what happens? And what is the downstream and upstream sort of effects of all these different things? Because then you start to step back and take more of a holistic view on your business. And also on your overall service and your experience. Because if you don’t, then you’re doing it with blinkers and you’re limiting your impact.

Adrian Swinscoe: And so I’d encourage … It’s a, it’s not a very popular, or it’s quite popular in concept. But it’s not widely understood or not widely underused as a thing, And I would encourage people to dip their toe in the water and start to understand a bit more about it because it can really help elevate your view about how your business operates and how it could operate better. And it will allow people to also see that actually it’s not just about, what’s the best way to explain it?

Adrian Swinscoe: So it’s a bit like … Think about medicine, right. You go to the doctor and say you’ve got a pain in your neck. And you go to the doctor and he gives you pill. That’s fine because that’s like a mechanistic, industrial kind of way of approaching something. But what it doesn’t do, is it doesn’t understand why you’ve got pain in your neck. And it could understand that actually you’ve got a slight misbalance in your skeletal frame because you’ve been sleeping wrong or you’ve kind of crunched over. You’ve got bad posture or something. Or you’ve got an arthritic hip or whatever it might be and it’s just the way that it’s all kind of … The elbow’s connected to the shoulder, the neck bone. You know, that child’s song.

Adrian Swinscoe: It’s being able to step back and actually say, “Let’s look at things holistically and see how everything affects everything else.” Sometime the literature is quite dense but it’s worth persevering with, just as a set of tools and a practice that you can try and take and embrace. Because, I think when you do that you start to see how everything is linked. But it also gives you tools to map those links together as well.

Nick Francis: And I think that’s a really great way for us to frame the discussion that we’ve had today because sure, maybe there’s a couple of quick things. There may be a pill for handling these holiday rushes but it’s an opportunity. There’s a lot of data coming your way. It’s an opportunity to evaluate the business more holistically and say, “What could we do better? What could we do better as a business to better serve our customers and maybe we’re going to get more data during this rush time to help us understand that.” So definitely something to keep in mind and continue to iterate on. Not just do the quick fix, the quick pill.

Adrian Swinscoe: Yeah. And sometimes you have no choice to do the quick fix because you have no time and you’re in the thick of it. I noticed you guys asked the question, “What do you do when you’re in the middle of a rush season?” I was on Twitter, a question on Twitter, “What do you do when you’re in the middle of the rush season when you’re slammed and you want to make your support better, or you want to just survive or maintain standards?” And I think the thing … There’s a reality that says if you’re in the thick of it and it’s going to be … You’re in a two, three weeks, four weeks rush period the most important thing you can do for yourself, your team members and/or your team is to look after yourself.

Adrian Swinscoe: And look after them because if you don’t look after yourself and the people around you then there’s no way that you’re going to be able to maintain those levels through that period. So remember ladies and gentlemen, it’s a marathon. It’s not a sprint. You’re not helping your team mates and/or yourself if you kind of go hard for four or five days and then you fall over. Because, you know what? It is a long game and your customers are understanding and if you’re in the thick of it, I think there’s an opportunity.

Adrian Swinscoe: You don’t have a chance to do anything because the rush season’s too close. The thing that you can do when you’re through the rush season is start to think about keeping an eye on or a tally of the type of support requests that you get coming in from your customers. And that … Given that you’ll be able start compiling a real-time log as a member of the team. So you’ll start to be able to raise your own consciousness of the type of things that are coming in. And just by the very fact of raising your awareness and then talking about that with your team, you’ll start to think about maybe quick fixes or things that you can share that are best practice or easy quick fixes around things. But at the same time you actually, while you’re working you can gather data that you can then use post-rush to set yourself for later on and next year.

Nick Francis: You know, a simple way to implement the systems thinking that you’re talking about is, once you get through that holiday rush or whatever it may be, just do a retrospective. Get the team together and talk about what went well, what didn’t go that well and what can we do to better prepare for the next time? That’s a great way to sort of tactically implement what you’re talking about.

Adrian Swinscoe: I think that’s absolutely right, but here’s also the interesting thing Nick. We’re all so really bad at remembering things accurately. And one of the essential parts of implementing more of a systemic approach to how you’re analyzing your support and trying to make it better is the idea that before you do anything, before you act on the system, you have to go and study it.

Adrian Swinscoe: And if the really important point is this rush period then you should try and study the rush period. And if that starts with just collecting data, keeping a little tally sheet that goes, “I’ve had five emails about X problem and ten emails and Y problem over the course of today or my shift or whatever it might be.” And then you start grouping those together. You get a very, very quick and usually very accurate picture of what is actually happening. And that in of itself just raises the consciousness of people and understanding what’s kind of going on. And then when you do the retrospective with the data, then you’ve got … Then you’re cooking on gas.

Nick Francis: That’s awesome. Okay, let’s get into a couple of audience questions.

Adrian Swinscoe: Okay.

Nick Francis: And if you are watching and have a question, feel free to put it in the chat. We would love to address it. So first question, “Would you guys suggest closing down live channels like phone, maybe chat during the days right around the holiday to try and interact in a more timely manner with customers?”

Adrian Swinscoe: Oh crumbs, that’s a good question. My instinct is no. But I think the thing that I would say is that I think one of the challenges that firms have is that they take on too many channels. And therefore that overloads them. And actually I think there’s an opportunity to sort of, almost … And part of the problem is, when you’ve got a large number of channels and they’re not connected. There’s some other research. I think it’s from Dimension Data that says, on average large organizations have their customers have about nine different channels right now.

Adrian Swinscoe: And that number is set to increase to about 11 over the 18 months or so. Which, is like … You think about it and go, “That’s frightening. That’s just crazy.” However, here’s the interesting thing. Organizations that we tend to talk about that are the leaders in service and experience don’t serve their customers over that many channels.

Nick Francis: Right.

Adrian Swinscoe: Right.

Nick Francis: Yeah.

Adrian Swinscoe: So the idea is, do you want to choose to be great at a few or average at many? But it’s a courageous choice that you’ve got to make. So turning things off, I think it could be done but to do it in peak season? I would question that. But post peak season you might want to do a review of what’s … If you’re going to be great in a few channels, which channels do we want to be great in?

Nick Francis: Yeah. And the conventional wisdom is to go where your customers are, right? But customers have expectations in each of those channels, and if you are unable to meet and exceed those expectations you’re frankly better off sticking with ones where you’re excellent.

Adrian Swinscoe: Okay. Let me give you another example of somebody that actually goes completely counter to what you think would be the right thing tod do. And it’s an American firm that’s based out of California. They make standup paddle boards. It’s called Tara Paddle Boards. You might have seen them on the Shark Tank. Now, I spoke to their owner and they did this wonderful thing because he was concerned about the well-being of their employees and how there was a notion that to do better that you have to do more. And so you end up working more hours and it’s impinging on people’s lives and stuff.

Adrian Swinscoe: And he said, “That’s rubbish. I don’t want to do that. I want to do an experiment.” And the experiment was that he said … He started it June, the first of June I think, it was 2015, 2016, something like that. And the experiment was, “We’re going to move our office hours. We’re going to start an 8:00 and finish at 1:00.” He says, “We are going to have no breaks. We are just going to start there. We’re just going to smash through the day.” He said, “We’re also …” And they have a retail shop, and the retail hours were 8:00 to 1:00. Their warehouse is 8:00 to 1:00. The website’s open 24 hours a day. That’s been fine.

Adrian Swinscoe: But the people physically working in the business are only working five hours a day. And what it forced them to do was, cut out all the crap that they’re doing. You know, focus on what were the right things to do and communicate it in a way that their customers got it and can actually respect it. And guess what? The business sales went like that. Customer satisfaction went like that. Productivity went like that. It’s just completely counter-intuitive. Oh, here’s the other thing, is that nobody’s wages get cut either.

Nick Francis: Wow. That’s a very cool story and a really good reason to really consider the channels that you take on, the time that you put in. And really setting the proper expectations to customers.

Adrian Swinscoe: Exactly. Completely. I mean the communications expectations is, I think is … We make assumptions that customers are going to believe and/or say things, that here’s the thing, if you manage those expectations and you communicate the reasons why you’re doing them and then when you get to the point that you deliver service to the client and if that service is exceptional at the point of demand, the customer’s not really bothered. They’re ready because you’ve already set them up for it. And then they’re there. Their problem is waiting to be solved. You solve it. You blow them away. They love you.

Nick Francis: That’s awesome. Very cool. I think … I’m being told that we have no more time so Adrian it was a real-

Adrian Swinscoe: I could talk about this for days.

Nick Francis: Thank you everyone for watching. The recording of our talk today is going to included on HelpU. So go to Adrian also wrote an article for us this week that’s fantastic. Please go to the website. Check it out and subscribe for future updates. Next month we’re going to be talking to one of my very favorite people, Chase Clemons. He is a member of the support team at Basecamp. We’re going to be talking about effective customer service reporting. So, until then we’ll see you all later. Thank You. Thank you Adrian, again.

Adrian Swinscoe: Cheers. Thank you. Bye-bye. By the way, Chase is a cool guy. You should join him.

Nick Francis: Thanks Adrian. See you.

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